He finished second in the mvp voting, and yet he never had a single great season?

“1. Formula One is not a real sport…because…well, just because. Btw, hundreds of millions of fans across the world disagree with you.”

So you don’t even address why i don’t consider it a real sport, you just state that since a lot of people watch it then it should be considered a sport. I guess the blue angels are participating in real sport. I guess hot dog eating is a real sport. Do you get the point yet, I said that because it involved AUTOMATED MACHINES, that it wasn’t a real sport.

DEFINE POTENTIAL for me. Does it have anything to do with future skill and performance? Owners sign guys based on what they estimate their future skill and performance to be. Is this really that hard for you understand. Owners can’t sign guys to new contracts every single year, they have to sign them to 10 year deals or whatever, thats how you get a guy like Vick who didn’t live up to his POTENTIAL.

You are so fucking dumb that you are unable to grasp very basic concepts. Instead of addressing the issues I raise you just call me a sherdogger.

Like I said before, you are upset because I exposed your lack of economic knowledge and now all you can do is call me names and misrepresent my statements every chance you get.

You mean where I said: “It’s not entirely true that in “real sports” the best competitors are always represented at the highest levels of competition.”?

Since your reading comprehension is deficient, it means I partially agree with his assessment.

And then I said: “I’m not saying you’re necessarily wrong, but I think there’s a shade of grey here that you’re not really addressing in your “real sport” argument.”

Again, since your reading comprehension is deficient, this means that I don’t think he is wrong, just that he’s not representing some of the nuances of the situation. Which he later agreed with.

You’re so obsessed with proving me wrong, and proving that you’re right, you can’t see that I’m not even saying anything other than common sense.

And, here’s what you’ve contributed to this thread:

1. Formula One is not a real sport…because…well, just because. Btw, hundreds of millions of fans across the world disagree with you.

2. Michael Vick showed the “skill and performance” of the top QB in the league to justify his fat contract. Too bad, now you had to admit he was “overpaid” because the truth says otherwise. He never had a single great season as a QB.

3. You said: “I think that skill and performance is directly correlated to compensation in just about every sport.” No mention of “potential” at all, yet magically, now you’re claiming that’s what you meant all along. Of course, the mere fact of saying someone has “potential” implies a lack of “skill and performance”. Otherwise, you wouldn’t have to say “potential” in the first place.

4. All you can do is continually point to some debate we had where you think you won. You’re like the dumb high school football player who continually talks about idiotic past “victories”. No one cares, including me.

I’m done wasting my time with a Sherdogger like you.

http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/10/02/csac-releases-strikeforce-fighter-salary-figures/#comments

Notice in this conversation grape knee that I point out it looks like fighters weren’t currently happy with their contracts. And what happens a week later?

Its funny that you still can’t show any proof that I am backtracking. You should post quotes of mine that are contradictory. Instead you just say “you are backtracking” and expect people to believe you. You keep digging yourself in hole and I am starting to feel sorry for you.

Grape knee
“If you noticed from the very beginning, I actually said that I didn’t necessarily disagree with Ivan, just that it’s not a black and white issue for the very same things we’re speaking about now (potential, marketability as Ivan admitted, etc).”

So you don’t completely disagree with ivan? just a little then, go ahead and prove how much you agree with him. Post some links of comments were you agree with him. Mostly it looks like you do disagree, especially on the major issues.

Its called evidence, go ahead and provide some.

Also, I don’t want to make it seem as though “marketability” should have absolutely zero effect on how much Zuffa pushes a fighter or buries/demotes/releases/doesn’t-sign a fighter. Obviously marketability has to play some role in it and the fighter’s ability has to play some role in it. All I’m saying is that I don’t think it’s too much to ask for the “ability” part of that to be north of 50% of the equation, instead of nowhere near 50 percent, which is how it’s booked now.

Ivan, the problem I have with your view on this is how you once again try to demonize Zuffa as if they have some evil motive. Its a free market and its the fans who ultimately decide who gets pushed via PPV buys and feedback. If a fighter wants to be be boring, that his or her peragative, but don’t think I’m going to pay money for that. This is a spectator sport and Zuffa operates in accordance with pushing and dropping fighters due to business needs; not some idealism of the ways sports should be. Why hold that against them?

I also happen to think that Zuffa does a masterful job with its booking. Is it any cooincidence that the UFC is the most competitive promotion. Watching some of the amatuer fighters that get pushed in Heroe’s is laughable. Shibata looks like he never even trained for the ground and this is one of their poster boys.

If you noticed from the very beginning, I actually said that I didn’t necessarily disagree with Ivan, just that it’s not a black and white issue for the very same things we’re speaking about now (potential, marketability as Ivan admitted, etc).

You clearly didn’t understand that or you wouldn’t have started arguing. Keep back tracking.

Grape Knee
““Potential” does not remotely equal “skill and performance”.”

Yeah, the people who are offering these huge contracts are basing their decisions on estimations of an athletes future skill and performance, otherwise known as potential (sometimes those estimates are good and sometimes they are bad). You really seem to have trouble understanding the basic concepts of what I say.

Grape knee high is still upset about the time he got called out on his BS

Here is the link

http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/10/02/csac-releases-strikeforce-fighter-salary-figures/#comments

Funny how this is exactly the opposite of what you were saying before. “Potential” does not remotely equal “skill and performance”.

lol, that is not what Meltzer said. He said that he knows who Iole’s source is, and that the source is someone who would have knowledge of the contract… which plays into what a lot of people suspect, which is that it’s someone like Dana White. The exact quote, right after Meltzer reminds his readers that he now works for the same organization as Iole, was: “I can tell you I know Iole’s sourcing and it is someone who absolutely would have knowledge of the contract.”

At no point has Meltzer or anyone else reported that Couture was making the amount of money per fight that was reported by Kevin Iole, or even half of that amount. All Meltzer said is that Iole’s source would have knowledge of the contract, which is very different than saying that a source has knowledge of the contract AND isn’t lying to members of the press to get their agenda out there.

You have some great points, except you distort the facts to the point where they make no sense. Why throw his lifetime average in there, where you are talking about how much money he makes under a contract signed in 2000. You might has well leave out any stats before the signing of his contract. Take a look at his stats from 2000 and on, and then compare him to other players and their salaries. I am sure he will still be overpaid, but thats because guys like him and vick sign contracts that are based a lot on potential.

That fact is that he is the best player in baseball and the highest paid. Your argument does nothing but strengthen Ivans argument. Just because its not an exact science; dollars are not going to directly correlate with stats doesn’t mean that skill has a lot of correlation with pay.

Icemuncher:”I hope you know that even “real sports” pay exciting players that can bring in new fans and sell stadium seats more than they should be paid if it was based purely on their skill level.”

Are you saying that A rod is being paid a lot more than other players because he puts asses in the seats? He is one of the most unpopular players New York has ever seen. They hate him.
Next time you make a hypothesis use an example that supports it instead of undermines it.