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« | Home | »

Tuesday turmoil: Mainstream media questions if Liddell was all hype and no substance

By Zach Arnold | September 24, 2007

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Does anyone know of alternates to Feedity for creating RSS feeds that does not require creating an account or going through the hassle of registration?

Chuck Liddell = $500,000 USD. Keith Jardine = $14,000 USD. Well. Useless stat of the day – if you combine the listed fight purse money for the main event, Chuck Liddell ended up with 97.2% of the cash.

Akihiro Gono made it official today – he’s fighting on the UFC 78 (11/17 Newark, New Jersey) show. His nickname and gimmick will be “The Japanese Sensation.” Check out the afro today.

Pro Elite completes $22.5 million private funding.

The latest Sports Illustrated column on MMA.

The emotions of Joe Silva and Dana White.

Renato Babalu was fined $25,000 by the NSAC.

Pramit Mohapatra explains how CompuStrike works.

Luke Thomas talks about Kevin Iole. Somehow, I think Kevin will laugh at that column while counting the zillions of dollars he’s making at Yahoo Sports. one reader has a clever theory about why Kevin produces must-read material.

I watched the IFL TV show last night (featuring footage from their Hollywood, Florida event) and gradually things seem to be improving in terms of production values for the broadcast (although those Gamma-O ads are goofy). It certainly has a different feel than the UFC product. It was weird to see no heat at the end of the show, however, for the championship ring ceremony (which came off completely flat). Sam Caplan seems optimistic for the IFL, although I’d rather let the financials do the talking.

The Caymanian Compass:

The Ultimate Fighting Championship should be renamed the Ultimate Fatal Cauldron, it is that brutal. … Until a few years ago, mixed martial arts fighters sometimes fought literally to the death. … With those tiny ‘gloves’ shaped like black, leather knuckledusters, the damage in UFC is 10 times worse than anything a boxer could dish out. It is licensed thuggery.

Onto today’s headlines.

  1. Fox Sports: Jermain Taylor needs to impress
  2. Irish Whip Fighting: The fallout of Knockout – Inside UFC 76’s upsets
  3. Yahoo Sports: Kelly Pavlik’s trainer gets his day in the sun
  4. Steve Sievert: Chuck Liddell-Wanderlei Silva slips through UFC’s grasp
  5. MMA Madness: Why UFC needs Fedor
  6. MMA Analyst: Liddell’s retirement? A load of crap
  7. CBS Sportsline: White uncertain if Liddell/Silva will still happen
  8. The Valley Vanguard (Aaron Crossen): Upsets built into MMA
  9. The Desert Dispatch (CA): Q & A with WEC ring announcer Joe Martinez
  10. MMA Junkie: Hector Lombard vs. Karo Parisyan set for UFC 78
  11. MMA Weekly: London calling – the next step forward
  12. MMA HQ: Video of UFC 76 post-fight press conference
  13. Todd Martin (CBS Sports): MMA world is flat – making sense of UFC 76

Topics: Boxing, IFL, Japan, MMA, Media, Pro Elite, UFC, WEC, Zach Arnold | 86 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

86 Responses to “Tuesday turmoil: Mainstream media questions if Liddell was all hype and no substance”

  1. Grape Knee High says:

    Gaijin, Arona might walk around at 230, but I don’t think his natural frame is that big. Filho says he walks around at 220, but I think he has a 170 frame (if he were to fight in the UFC).

    Shogun definitely has a 185 frame. If you watch the Secrets of Chute Boxe DVDs that he and Ninja are in, you can see that they have the exact same height and frame. And Ninja looked small against Lawler at 185.

    Wandy clearly has a 185 frame and always has. Anyone remember Tank’s “midget on steroids” quote?

    I think some of the PRIDE guys like Gono and Lombard are wising up by fighting at 170, as compared fighting at 183 like they did in PRIDE.

  2. Seems to me like Dave is being a little harsh.

    Dana’s emotions probably had more to do with Liddell dropping a unanimous decision just minutes before.

  3. Body_Shots says:

    When reading anything that Dave Meltzer writes about Dana White or the UFC, one has to keep in mind that the two of them are friends and that Meltzer is extremely reluctant to write anything negative about White.

    Funny to hear you say that when most of the info you use to write about the UFC comes from Meltzer. What you really mean is ‘let’s keep in mind that Meltzer is friends with White whenever he states something that I don’t like about them.’

    Should we also keep in mind that you are often cynical and biased when it comes to the UFC and Dana White in particular?

    Ivan’s only comment about UFC Fight Night & TUF.
    “Are you ready to go, f–kers?” Classy as always.

    I know I do.

  4. The Gaijin says:

    GKH:

    I see where you’re coming from on this and I will have to agree with you. I do believe that Silva could fight at 185 as well – which btw, I always found it funny that he was accused of being fed 185′ers if he could just as easily be fighting at 185 himself.
    I guess then the argument was that they were 185′ers who should be at 170?

  5. D.Capitated says:

    Wanderlei Silva was a monster compared to a lot of those guys. Not only that, none of them were particularly competitive at any weight class. C’mon, Minowa? Kanehara? Oyama? Tamura? Iwasaki? Minowa was an entertaining fighter, but certainly didn’t belong anywhere near Wanderlei Silva in the ring.

  6. Jeremy (Not that Jeremy) says:

    Is that a word? If so…AWESOME! (adds it to my vocab)

    Abso-fucking-lutely: http://www.yourdictionary.com/ahd/c/c0608200.html

    Please note, abso-fucking-lutely is not a real word. Neither is unfuckingbelieveable, but I still think that they have their places.

  7. THE HUNTER says:

    I see a lot of Pride ballsuckers. Especially so when reading these comments:

    “The whole Pride FC vs. UFC thing is retarded because the UFC or their army of sycophants change the definition of a Pride guy whenever it suits them. Heath Herring hadn’t been in Pride for a while before he came to the UFC. Despite this, he is used as evidence of Pride fighters struggling against UFC guys.

    Yet, both Anderson Silva and Rampage were also former Pride guys. Both of them disposed of UFC champions and poster boys whom they built their promotion around, without even breaking a sweat.”

    Interesting.

    Bryan, the guy who wrote the above, feels Heath Herring isn’t a “pride fighter’ because he fought in some other organizations after leaving Pride. Ok. But then Mr Bryan goes on to give Pride credit for Anderson Silva, conveniently leaving out that Anderson Silva ALSO fought in some other organizations (Cage Rage) after leaving Pride years ago.

    Nice.

    Pride fans never cease to amaze me.

  8. Jordan Breen says:

    Just a minor point, but I think any power Lyoto does have in his striking is somewhat hampered by the way he strikes. When he actually stands firm and throws at guys, he seems to hurt them both with punches, or knees in the clinch. A lot of the problem seems to be that he maintains his karate background and lands a lot of shots while back pedalling and moving sideways, basically using mechanics that don’t allow for any power transfer in his body. When he stands in the pocket and drives into his strikes, he seems to generate a solid amount of power.

  9. Zach Arnold says:

    An open warning to everyone – if things degenerate, I will pull replies or end comments on the post.

    Don’t use statements like “I see a lot of Pride ballsuckers” and expect me to have any sympathy.

  10. JThue says:

    Was this the last fight on Jardine’s second deal? I guess he signed it right before numbers started going up. UFC really have improved on the payout front across the board this summer.

  11. Ivan Trembow says:

    I don’t have the right to imply that the line “Are you ready to go, f–kers?” is not very classy? Or are you going to disagree with that assertion?

  12. Ivan Trembow says:

    BodyShots— No, what it means is that Dave Meltzer provides a lot of good information, but if you’re reading anything that includes a personal opinion and it happens to about a friend of his, then you have to take it with a grain of salt. That is NOT just limited to Dana White or the UFC, the same is just as true or more so in the cases of Bret Hart, Frank Shamrock, Superstar Billy Graham, any many others.

  13. Rollo the Cat says:

    Was this the last fight on Jardine’s second deal? I guess he signed it right before numbers started going up. UFC really have improved on the payout front across the board this summer.”

    I think so. When people were complaining about the Jardine v Lideell match up, asking what sense it makes, I was thinking i would help Zuffa in negotiations with Jardine. Two straight loses and he wouldn’t have had any leverage.

  14. I SEE A LOT OF PRIDE BALL SUCKERS IN HERE!

  15. 45 Huddle says:

    Wow…. Just wow…. The conversation has gotten out of control. People making claims about what Zuffa’s intentions were. You people need to chill. First, nobody knows what the true intentions were. Secondly, it doesn’t really matter. Winning fights does. And they can’t control that.

    As for the fighter pay…. I see a lot of people on other forums complaining about Chuck Liddell getting paid $500,000 and Keith Jardine getting paid $14,000.

    1. Chuck Liddell typically gets more then that after PPV Revenues are factored in.
    2. It is almost certain that Jardine made more then this, as Zuffa typically pays out a bonus to fighters for being main events. Just like Josh Koscheck, who was only reported as being paid $10,000 for his loss to GSP likely got more then that.
    3. People are completely ignoring that Jon Fitch got $44,000 for a win. Lyoto Machida got $50,000. Forrest Griffin got $84,000 after his disclosed bonus. Tyson Griffin got $64,000 and is making, along with sponsors, probably over $150,000 gross this year.

    So many positives, and people only look at the half truthed negatives.

  16. JThue says:

    Meltzer reports the IFL GP First round will air LIVE on MNTV. If nothing else I’m glad we’ll get some fresher matarial of theirs on TV(or next day ******** for those of us on the other side of the earth).

  17. Zack says:

    On a brighter note, Jeremy (Not that Jeremy) has broadened my vocabulary. Sick!

  18. 45 Huddle says:

    I purchased the UFC 70 DVD today. One interesting note is that the DVD is presented in 16:9, which is the aspect ratio of High Def TV’s. All of the previous DVD’s were released in 4:3, which is the aspect ratio of the analog TV sets. I know all of the PPV’s are taped in High Def… But it is nice to have this aspect ratio to watch fights. It actually comes across nicer…..

  19. Zack says:

    Anyone else watching Rio’s Heros? The stream is live now:

    mms://advancedcon.wmlivesvc.vitalstreamcdn.com/live_advancedcon_vitalstream_com_rh8

    Vale Tudo tourney. Pretty cool bareknuckle stuff. Also pretty funny how low budget it is…they don’t have replay.

  20. Bryan says:

    “Interesting.

    Bryan, the guy who wrote the above, feels Heath Herring isn’t a “pride fighter’ because he fought in some other organizations after leaving Pride. Ok. But then Mr Bryan goes on to give Pride credit for Anderson Silva, conveniently leaving out that Anderson Silva ALSO fought in some other organizations (Cage Rage) after leaving Pride years ago.

    Nice.

    Pride fans never cease to amaze me.”

    Actually, the entire point was that both Silva and Rampage are not considered former Pride guys by the UFC and the army of sycophants. Rampage was the UFC guy in the fight against Hendo according to their propaganda.

    That’s fine but after the most recent ppv Kevin Iole or some other UFC fanboy is selling the story of Pride guys struggling in the UFC and uses Heath Herring as an example of this. Heath Herring had not been in Pride for a while before his entrance into the UFC.

    The fact that Rampage and Silva had left Pride before the entrance into the UFC was kind of the point, as I was comparing them to Heath Herring to illustrate the double standard the UFC and its fanboys are relying on.

    If you’re going to define anyone who has a history of fighting in Pride, as they are doing with Herring then you have to include Rampage and Silva as Pride guys. If you’re not then don’t use him in your list of Pride guys who are not doing well in the UFC.

    Not exactly a complicated argument.

  21. Jeremy (Not that Jeremy) says:

    It was Rampage’s third UFC fight.

    How many fights in UFC does he have to participate in to become a “UFC Guy” in your book? Will he ALWAYS be a Pride guy?

  22. The Gaijin says:

    “Wanderlei Silva was a monster compared to a lot of those guys. Not only that, none of them were particularly competitive at any weight class. C’mon, Minowa? Kanehara? Oyama? Tamura? Iwasaki? Minowa was an entertaining fighter, but certainly didn’t belong anywhere near Wanderlei Silva in the ring.”

    Oh I’m not really disagreeing with you on that point – moreso just pointing out he was always portrayed as this monstrous big, bad wolf of the 205 division when he could have been making weight at 185. He was constantly criticized for having wins over Sak and Hendo as well let’s not forget.

    Just goes to show how idiotic the people were who said “Well when he fought Mirko he actually weighed more than him, so he wasn’t at a size disadvantage.”

    Anyways I digress, my fanboy-ism is getting extended pretty far here.

  23. The Gaijin says:

    “3. People are completely ignoring that Jon Fitch got $44,000 for a win. Lyoto Machida got $50,000. Forrest Griffin got $84,000 after his disclosed bonus. Tyson Griffin got $64,000 and is making, along with sponsors, probably over $150,000 gross this year.

    So many positives, and people only look at the half truthed negatives.”

    You make some good points, but let’s not forget a few things:

    (a) I don’t believe they ever actually disclose the size of a lot of these magic bonuses;
    (b) Machida is on his WFA contract still and will likely take a pay cut
    (c) Why should sponsor money count for the pay, in the pay argument for the UFC? None of the money comes out of the UFC’s pocket…

  24. Ivan Trembow says:

    “Why should sponsor money count for the pay, in the pay argument for the UFC?”

    It shouldn’t. When the sports media reports on the publicly-available annual salary of Alex Rodriguez, they say “$26 million per year” (or whatever the exact figure is). They don’t say, “Well, it’s $26 million per year, but he also makes a lot of money from a Xyience sponsorship, and I think Mickey’s Malt Liquor sponsors him as well.” Sponsorship is an assumed part of the equation for any professional athlete.

    Also, the NFL, an organization that the UFC has voluntarily compared itself to in the past, pays 60% of its gross revenue to the players, based on terms negotiated by the players’ union.

  25. Ivan Trembow says:

    Also, it looks like Fedor is on his way to the UFC after all, according to Dana White.

    http://www.sportsline.com/print/mmaboxing/story/10369868

    “”Fedor wants to fight in the World Sambo event,” White said. “I won’t let him fight in it if he’s signed with us.”

    White believes that Emelianenko will be ready to join the UFC shortly after the event.

    “The Sambo tournament is in October, and I think he’ll sign (with the UFC) after that. In fact, I am positive he’ll be with us after that,” White said.”

  26. E says:

    I think the UFC vs. PRIDE thing is erroneous. Personally, I see it as game plan vs. no game plan (generically speaking).

    It seems that guys who come to the fight with a specific game plan that is well executed fare well (recent examples are Forrest, Jardine, Couture, Lawler), while those that simply step in and try to go where the fight takes them or do what they’ve always done don’t seem to fare as well (e.g. Shogun, Liddell, Cro Cop). It’s by no means a truism, but it does appear that as MMA continues to evolve that a well designed and well executed game plan has become increasingly important.

  27. Thomas says:

    IF the 205lb title picture is not cleared by next year I say give Ramapge Wanderlei. All the UFC would have to do is show does Pride highlights of Wanderlei destroying Jackson and showing those fights on UFC Unleashed. Rampage wouldn’t mind avenging the losses. The UFC can’t afford to let another big name guy get upset

  28. manos says:

    “On UFC vs. PRIDE:

    Just a thought…(since this is still a red-hot topic, apparently)

    Middleweight Champion: Anderson Silva (PRIDE)
    LightHeavyweight Champion: Rampage Jackson (PRIDE)
    Heavyweight Champion: Randy Couture (UFC)”

    Following that logic, who were Pride’s only two LHW champs ever?

    Wanderlei Silva (UFC Fighter) and Dan Henderson (UFC Fighter)

    Middleweight? Dan again.

    Gomi-weight? Rightfully, former UFC Fighter Nick Diaz.

  29. manos says:

    Not that that shit makes any sense, but it’s a good reductio ad absurdum.

  30. 45 Huddle says:

    Well, the fact that the UFC helps hook up fighters with sponsors is one of the reasons why it should at least be taken into consideration.

    As for the NFL vs. UFC comparison….. Every company has fixed costs. The more revenues coming in, and payout will always become a greater percentage of total revenues. you are literally comparing an American Sports Institution to a company that only become profitable a few years ago, with no proof that it won’t just be a fad within a couple of years. If the UFC has staying power, those salaries will go up in time…..

    Also, you speak of the NFL Player’s Union… Isn’t this the same union that isn’t sticking up for it’s own legends? The same one that has multiple athletes with shortened lives due to their years of playing the game… And they are being stingy on them with compensation…. A good example they are.

    “It shouldn’t. When the sports media reports on the publicly-available annual salary of Alex Rodriguez, they say “$26 million per year” (or whatever the exact figure is). They don’t say, “Well, it’s $26 million per year, but he also makes a lot of money from a Xyience sponsorship, and I think Mickey’s Malt Liquor sponsors him as well.” Sponsorship is an assumed part of the equation for any professional athlete.”

    You are just wrong. Sports Illustrated runs a ranking every year of the highest paid athletes. The include endorsement deals for these rankings. So it is very much part of the sports talk in America.

  31. Grape Knee High says:

    Regarding UFC salaries, I believe in the free market. Since the UFC does not have a monopoly on the MMA industry, fighters are getting paid fairly. Else, they would not be fighting in the UFC.

    You’re only worth what someone else is willing to pay you to do whatever it is you’re looking to do to make money. Undercard fighters don’t get paid a lot of money because they don’t bring in PPV. Period.

    I’ll also go so far as to say that I think quite a few fighters being overpaid, if anything. The economic rent the UFC is paying for many fighters is quite high, IMO.

  32. The Gaijin says:

    If you really want to extend the absurdism of the arguments: almost every champion is from IVC, RINGS and some nickel and dime shows, plus a few standovers from “Gracie-UFC” days.

  33. 45 Huddle says:

    I agree. And it’s not like the UFC is losing any fighters that they want to keep. Who have they really lossed? Paul Buentello? Nick Diaz? These guys aren’t even getting paid that much more outside of the UFC. And it might have not been a god career move in terms of the # of people watching them. Look at some other highly overpaid fighters…..

    $150,000 for Shogun – What kind of money is he bringing in?
    $200,000 for Nogueira – What kind of money is he bring in?
    Possibly $2 Million for Fedor – He isn’t worth a fraction of that money.

    Who is worth the money? Chuck Liddell…. Tito Ortiz…. Quinton Jackson…. Forrest Griffin… Deigo Sanchez…. Georges St. Pierre….. Matt Hughes…. Rich Franklin…. Michael Bisping…. Anderson Silva….. Randy Couture

    These are the guy who are selling the PPV’s. The others should be happy to be there for the ride. I think people forget that around the year 1999…. A UFC Champion was getting around $50,000 a fight. At least that is the number I remember being thrown around. Now a guy like Jon Fitch, who is #4 in the world…. Is getting almost that much. Forrest Griffin, who wasn’t even Top 10 before his last fight…. Was getting over $30,000 more.

    Pay increases doesn’t happen overnight…..

  34. The Gaijin says:

    45:

    But no other sport attempts to claim their fighters are being paid a lot more than their salary based on the fact that they’re subsidized by sponsors.

    Every other sport is: salary = salary [+(and any outside sponsorships)]
    UFC formula: salary + outside sponsorships + random bonuses + potential win bonus = salary and for a few (growing) this is a good living as a solely professional fighter

    You don’t hear someone argue – well Mike Fisher could make more salary by subsidizing it running a hockey school on his off season time and getting RBK sponsorships!

  35. The Gaijin says:

    “Until a few years ago, mixed martial arts fighters sometimes fought literally to the death. … With those tiny ‘gloves’ shaped like black, leather knuckledusters, the damage in UFC is 10 times worse than anything a boxer could dish out. It is licensed thuggery.”

    I cannot believe people get away with writing this utterly tripe and completely false bullshit!

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