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	<title>Comments on: More stupid human tricks with Dana White</title>
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	<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/</link>
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		<title>By: Fight Game Blog &#187; Rear Naked Ramblings - Brandon Vera Is Back</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/comment-page-1/#comment-55652</link>
		<dc:creator>Fight Game Blog &#187; Rear Naked Ramblings - Brandon Vera Is Back</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 04 Dec 2008 02:53:48 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/#comment-55652</guid>
		<description>[...] - Zach Arnold talks about Dana White&#8217;s stance on steroids from a fighter&#8217;s perspective. [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] &#8211; Zach Arnold talks about Dana White&#8217;s stance on steroids from a fighter&#8217;s perspective. [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ivan Trembow</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/comment-page-1/#comment-33293</link>
		<dc:creator>Ivan Trembow</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 08:12:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/#comment-33293</guid>
		<description>&quot;There is a test for HGH - and a rather inexpensive one at that. Most pro sports just support this false claim so that they do not have to test for it.
(Source: Dick Pound)&quot;

That is correct, and there isn&#039;t a valid reason for the athletic commissions to still not be testing for HGH.  Yes, the current testing techniques only detect a failure if the athlete takes HGH within a couple of days of when the test is administered, but the same is true for cocaine and we&#039;ve still had several failures for that.

I also agree with you that the testers will always be behind the cheaters (as that is just the nature of sports drug testing in general), and I hope you’ll agree with me that the absolute most that can be done in terms of testing, should be done, even with the knowledge that many cheaters will be a step ahead.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;There is a test for HGH &#8211; and a rather inexpensive one at that. Most pro sports just support this false claim so that they do not have to test for it.<br />
(Source: Dick Pound)&#8221;</p>
<p>That is correct, and there isn&#8217;t a valid reason for the athletic commissions to still not be testing for HGH.  Yes, the current testing techniques only detect a failure if the athlete takes HGH within a couple of days of when the test is administered, but the same is true for cocaine and we&#8217;ve still had several failures for that.</p>
<p>I also agree with you that the testers will always be behind the cheaters (as that is just the nature of sports drug testing in general), and I hope you’ll agree with me that the absolute most that can be done in terms of testing, should be done, even with the knowledge that many cheaters will be a step ahead.</p>
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		<title>By: Grape Knee High</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/comment-page-1/#comment-33288</link>
		<dc:creator>Grape Knee High</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 16 Aug 2007 05:00:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/#comment-33288</guid>
		<description>No argument here on the steroid testing.  I just think your way of trying to discount his point about testers being behind the cheater by using the HGH test was a bit disingenuous since it didn&#039;t address his point.  HGH test or not, testers will always be behind the cheaters.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>No argument here on the steroid testing.  I just think your way of trying to discount his point about testers being behind the cheater by using the HGH test was a bit disingenuous since it didn&#8217;t address his point.  HGH test or not, testers will always be behind the cheaters.</p>
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		<title>By: The Gaijin</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/comment-page-1/#comment-33275</link>
		<dc:creator>The Gaijin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:20:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/#comment-33275</guid>
		<description>I don&#039;t follow your point...how is it a &quot;straw man&quot; that his statement was absolutely false?

There EXISTS a test for HGH and there has now for some time.  People like MLB and Dana etc. just feed off this and many other misconceptions so that they can shrug their shoulders and say &quot;hey there&#039;s no test, these guys are just ahead of the curve&quot;.

Yes people are ahead of the curve on some things, HGH is not one of them, so why don&#039;t they test for it?

It&#039;s piss poor rhetoric to say &quot;ooh there will always be cheating, because there is lag&quot;.  Well should that stop people from testing?  Should you just let people abuse dangerous performance enhancers?

My answer is a resounding &quot;NO&quot;.  People, such as Dana need to start taking some more responsibility and be part of the movement to make a statement and severely penalize people who are caught and to start enacting more preventative measures.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I don&#8217;t follow your point&#8230;how is it a &#8220;straw man&#8221; that his statement was absolutely false?</p>
<p>There EXISTS a test for HGH and there has now for some time.  People like MLB and Dana etc. just feed off this and many other misconceptions so that they can shrug their shoulders and say &#8220;hey there&#8217;s no test, these guys are just ahead of the curve&#8221;.</p>
<p>Yes people are ahead of the curve on some things, HGH is not one of them, so why don&#8217;t they test for it?</p>
<p>It&#8217;s piss poor rhetoric to say &#8220;ooh there will always be cheating, because there is lag&#8221;.  Well should that stop people from testing?  Should you just let people abuse dangerous performance enhancers?</p>
<p>My answer is a resounding &#8220;NO&#8221;.  People, such as Dana need to start taking some more responsibility and be part of the movement to make a statement and severely penalize people who are caught and to start enacting more preventative measures.</p>
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		<title>By: Grape Knee High</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/comment-page-1/#comment-33271</link>
		<dc:creator>Grape Knee High</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:11:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/#comment-33271</guid>
		<description>Gaijin, saying that there is an HGH test is a straw man.  You&#039;re not addressing the point that performance enhancing drug testing will always be behind the performance enhancing drug technology.  Always.

Look at Balco&#039;s Cream and Clear combo.  The only reason they know to test for that now is because a track and field coach blew the whistle.  Before that?  Nothing.  No one even knew it existed.

What about gene doping?  Nothing yet (that I know of).

Much of the time, athletes are not caught because they piss out a performance enhancer; they get caught because they piss out a substance that is not a performance enhancer in and of itself, but because they piss out a substance that is used as a masking agent for the enhancer.  This is another potential point of failure to keep up with.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Gaijin, saying that there is an HGH test is a straw man.  You&#8217;re not addressing the point that performance enhancing drug testing will always be behind the performance enhancing drug technology.  Always.</p>
<p>Look at Balco&#8217;s Cream and Clear combo.  The only reason they know to test for that now is because a track and field coach blew the whistle.  Before that?  Nothing.  No one even knew it existed.</p>
<p>What about gene doping?  Nothing yet (that I know of).</p>
<p>Much of the time, athletes are not caught because they piss out a performance enhancer; they get caught because they piss out a substance that is not a performance enhancer in and of itself, but because they piss out a substance that is used as a masking agent for the enhancer.  This is another potential point of failure to keep up with.</p>
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		<title>By: Torgo</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/comment-page-1/#comment-33270</link>
		<dc:creator>Torgo</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:39:27 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/#comment-33270</guid>
		<description>&quot;Those with enough intelligence to actually follow what you’re saying perfectly understand the issue that this is NOT testing by ‘THE GOVERNMENT’. Marks like Torgo seem to have no concept of how much Mr. White like to spin his web of deceit to his newfound ‘mainstream media’ marks. The ‘fanboy’ sites will call a spade a spade, something Mr. White cannot tolerate.&quot;

Listen, just because you&#039;re a zach arnold mark and I disagree with you doesn&#039;t make ME a dana white mark. You&#039;ll notice I never protest when there&#039;s an ACTUAL legitimate complaint about the guy. Just stupid manufactured highschool drama like this little situation is too much for any rational person to stay quiet about.

The labored logic it takes to twist Dana White&#039;s &quot;government testing&quot; remark into an untrue statement is a good example of &quot;No True Scotsman,&quot; (perhaps in reverse) an insane little line of twisted reasoning that goes something like this

    Argument: &quot;No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.&quot;
    Reply: &quot;But my uncle Angus likes sugar with his porridge.&quot;
    Rebuttal: &quot;Aye, but no TRUE Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.&quot; 

Oh sure... the government enforces and oversees fighter steroid testing... but not THE GOVERNMENT. You know, the REAL government. The Federal one. The government you KNOW dana white was trying to make you think tested... you just KNOW it. Because he&#039;s a LIAR. 

Redefining a word in order to make someone into a liar is just absolutely insane. Complete tin foil hat stuff. 

Credibility = 0

And the real shame of it is, there&#039;s plenty of REAL problems to worry about here without having to invent them. The fact alone that the UFC seems to be full of roid monkeys lately should be enough to write about without having to abuse the English language like this in a petty game of semantics.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;Those with enough intelligence to actually follow what you’re saying perfectly understand the issue that this is NOT testing by ‘THE GOVERNMENT’. Marks like Torgo seem to have no concept of how much Mr. White like to spin his web of deceit to his newfound ‘mainstream media’ marks. The ‘fanboy’ sites will call a spade a spade, something Mr. White cannot tolerate.&#8221;</p>
<p>Listen, just because you&#8217;re a zach arnold mark and I disagree with you doesn&#8217;t make ME a dana white mark. You&#8217;ll notice I never protest when there&#8217;s an ACTUAL legitimate complaint about the guy. Just stupid manufactured highschool drama like this little situation is too much for any rational person to stay quiet about.</p>
<p>The labored logic it takes to twist Dana White&#8217;s &#8220;government testing&#8221; remark into an untrue statement is a good example of &#8220;No True Scotsman,&#8221; (perhaps in reverse) an insane little line of twisted reasoning that goes something like this</p>
<p>    Argument: &#8220;No Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.&#8221;<br />
    Reply: &#8220;But my uncle Angus likes sugar with his porridge.&#8221;<br />
    Rebuttal: &#8220;Aye, but no TRUE Scotsman puts sugar on his porridge.&#8221; </p>
<p>Oh sure&#8230; the government enforces and oversees fighter steroid testing&#8230; but not THE GOVERNMENT. You know, the REAL government. The Federal one. The government you KNOW dana white was trying to make you think tested&#8230; you just KNOW it. Because he&#8217;s a LIAR. </p>
<p>Redefining a word in order to make someone into a liar is just absolutely insane. Complete tin foil hat stuff. </p>
<p>Credibility = 0</p>
<p>And the real shame of it is, there&#8217;s plenty of REAL problems to worry about here without having to invent them. The fact alone that the UFC seems to be full of roid monkeys lately should be enough to write about without having to abuse the English language like this in a petty game of semantics.</p>
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		<title>By: The Gaijin</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/comment-page-1/#comment-33269</link>
		<dc:creator>The Gaijin</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 19:23:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/#comment-33269</guid>
		<description>2)Steroids will always be a part of competitive sports. The testing will always lag behind the cheating. HGH anyone?

There is a test for HGH - and a rather inexpensive one at that.  Most pro sports just support this false claim so that they do not have to test for it.
(Source: Dick Pound)</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>2)Steroids will always be a part of competitive sports. The testing will always lag behind the cheating. HGH anyone?</p>
<p>There is a test for HGH &#8211; and a rather inexpensive one at that.  Most pro sports just support this false claim so that they do not have to test for it.<br />
(Source: Dick Pound)</p>
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		<title>By: Grape Knee High</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/comment-page-1/#comment-33263</link>
		<dc:creator>Grape Knee High</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 17:32:05 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/#comment-33263</guid>
		<description>&quot;I’d be shocked if the PPV % cuts were eliminated. If so, the question then is this: Is Dana going to raise the base pay or is he short-changing the fighters by paying the same base amount but no longer doing the cuts?&quot;

Zach, why does he need to raise base pay?  He can just hand them optional bonuses not explicitly tied to PPV cuts (or wins).

Think about the bonus Babalu received in the ambulance after being knocked out by Liddell.  Zuffa pays bonuses whenever they please, and this can form a total compensation package equivalent to PPV shares.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;I’d be shocked if the PPV % cuts were eliminated. If so, the question then is this: Is Dana going to raise the base pay or is he short-changing the fighters by paying the same base amount but no longer doing the cuts?&#8221;</p>
<p>Zach, why does he need to raise base pay?  He can just hand them optional bonuses not explicitly tied to PPV cuts (or wins).</p>
<p>Think about the bonus Babalu received in the ambulance after being knocked out by Liddell.  Zuffa pays bonuses whenever they please, and this can form a total compensation package equivalent to PPV shares.</p>
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		<title>By: Zack</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/comment-page-1/#comment-33257</link>
		<dc:creator>Zack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 16:50:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/#comment-33257</guid>
		<description>Great article Zach.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great article Zach.</p>
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		<title>By: AS</title>
		<link>http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/comment-page-1/#comment-33255</link>
		<dc:creator>AS</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:22:41 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/08/14/more-stupid-human-tricks-with-dana-white/#comment-33255</guid>
		<description>I think Dana makes several valid points.

1)The media does love the story. If you cover MMA the story has been a banaza thanks to the timing with the Benoit tragedy and Bonds chase. Not to point fingers or say theres anything wrong with it, but Zach you yourself got a nice byline on Sportsline thanks to the this issue. Business is business, and this story has been good business for the MMA media.

2)Steroids will always be a part of competitive sports. The testing will always lag behind the cheating. HGH anyone?

3)What more do people want? The commissions will suspend the guys for a year and Dana won&#039;t pay them. That will get people&#039;s attention more than anything else that could be done. As for the idea that the UFC&#039;s contractors are less than iron clad, if anyone takes their contract with Zuffa to court, I&#039;m going to bet on Zuffa&#039;s skilled in-house team anytime. Contracts is the foundation of thier business, I have to believe they get it right. 

The only thing I dsiagree with is why Dana&#039;s out there saying these things himself. In general I think Dana is over exposed. They could really use a spokesman.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I think Dana makes several valid points.</p>
<p>1)The media does love the story. If you cover MMA the story has been a banaza thanks to the timing with the Benoit tragedy and Bonds chase. Not to point fingers or say theres anything wrong with it, but Zach you yourself got a nice byline on Sportsline thanks to the this issue. Business is business, and this story has been good business for the MMA media.</p>
<p>2)Steroids will always be a part of competitive sports. The testing will always lag behind the cheating. HGH anyone?</p>
<p>3)What more do people want? The commissions will suspend the guys for a year and Dana won&#8217;t pay them. That will get people&#8217;s attention more than anything else that could be done. As for the idea that the UFC&#8217;s contractors are less than iron clad, if anyone takes their contract with Zuffa to court, I&#8217;m going to bet on Zuffa&#8217;s skilled in-house team anytime. Contracts is the foundation of thier business, I have to believe they get it right. </p>
<p>The only thing I dsiagree with is why Dana&#8217;s out there saying these things himself. In general I think Dana is over exposed. They could really use a spokesman.</p>
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