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« | Home | »

Tuesday TV talk: HERO’s stays the course

By Zach Arnold | July 17, 2007

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The HEROs show on Monday at Yokohama Arena reportedly drew a 10.9% rating on Tokyo Broadcasting System. Not a great number by any means, but an accurate reflection on a promotion with no real major star power.

Josh Gross says Royce Gracie has his reasons for not filing an appeal with the CSAC about a failed steroids test. Jake Rossen has his Notes on a Scandal.

I’ve asked this question before in previous updates and have gotten absolutely no answers. So, I’ll ask again – does anyone have a functioning RSS feed for the MMA news section of The Fight Network web site? The same question applies to Fight Network Radio, which has a clunky and often-times broken down feed. Also, is there a specific RSS feed for this 411 Mania directory?

Michael David Smith is not a fan of UFC 75 being aired on tape-delay on Spike TV.

Onto today’s headlines.

  1. Sam Caplan: Quick thoughts on IFL Battleground
  2. CBS Sportsline: Josh Barnett interview
  3. MMA Weekly: Josh Barnett playing the field
  4. Kevin Iole: Chuck Liddell vs. Keith Jardine at UFC 76 confirmed
  5. The Lancashire Telegraph (UK): Michael Bisping takes award
  6. The Gloucester County Times (NJ): Family, fans flock to see one of their own in ring (about Tara LaRosa)
  7. The Dayton Daily News (OH): Liddell vs. Silva on … then off … then on again (maybe)
  8. Sports Illustrated (Todd Martin): The contender – Elite XC looks to make mark in crowded MMA market
  9. 411 Mania: Interview with Pat Miletich
  10. The Lancashire Evening Post (UK): Fighter Glyn Powditch is a number cruncher
  11. MMA on Tap: Armando Garcia talks drugs in MMA
  12. UFC Mania: Roger Huerta vs. Alberto Crane set for UFC 74
  13. UFC Junkie: Nate Diaz to return at UFC Fight Night 11
  14. The Visalia Times-Delta (CA): Working together – fight teams help local fighters improve skills
  15. Fightlinker: Everyone thinks Liddell-Jardine is lame

Topics: HERO's, IFL, Japan, K-1, Media, MMA, Pro Elite, UFC, UK, Zach Arnold | 36 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |

36 Responses to “Tuesday TV talk: HERO’s stays the course”

  1. Jordan Breen says:

    Not to knock Alberto Crane -he is undefeated and has notched some spectacular submission wins – but Zuffa really need to start poaching top lightweights, or at least international prospects, instead of thinking inside the proverbial box like this. Crane’s convenient, but he’s really not that great of a fighter; the high point of his career is barely beating Javy Vazquez, who was crippled 10 seconds into their fight. Mahlow’s been his toughest test since. He’s pretty much a straight grappler in MMA still, and he’s not even THAT great of a grappler – Amazon Sugie blew him out on points in Nagoya.

  2. The matchup with Huerta is obviously one to benefit Huerta, not Crane. Crane could be much better if matched appropriately.

  3. Jordan Breen says:

    Crane could be matched considerably better than against Huerta, since he’s pretty much made to order for him.

    Nonetheless, it doesn’t change the fact that Crane isn’t a great fighter, and it is mind-numbing to think that Zuffa are giving deals to guys like him while the world’s better lightweights sit around waiting for a phone call, and quality international prospects pose greater long-term upside than a guy who isn’t going to be able to hit flying camel clutches once he starts facing guys who know a stagger stance from their asshole.

  4. Well, shit, maybe he has a manager who can really sell flying camel clutches. Monte ‘Many’ Cox is supposedly great, or something.

  5. Rollo the Cat says:

    So, Dana feeds Huerta another “opponent”. What is remarkable about the Huerta hype isn’t that Dana is pushing him so hard, it is that much of the MMA media is going right along with it, grouping Huerta right up there with the top LWs in the game.

  6. Jordan Breen says:

    “Well, shit, maybe he has a manager who can really sell flying camel clutches. Monte ‘Many’ Cox is supposedly great, or something.”

    This is kind of my point. This isn’t the time for Zuffa to revert to laissez-faire talent signing, and waiting for Manager X to approach them with Fighter Y. They have to go out there and get the top guys who are prime to be signed.

    “What is remarkable about the Huerta hype isn’t that Dana is pushing him so hard, it is that much of the MMA media is going right along with it, grouping Huerta right up there with the top LWs in the game.”

    The Evans fight was a pretty good stylistic test for a developing prospect. I’m not so sure what they expect out of a Crane fight, but I suspect that it’ll just be Huerta plunking Crane in the guard a zillion times until he stops rolling around and going for locoplatas.

  7. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    Screw all that, I want to see Brian Stann in UFC, and I ultimately want to see him fight Quinton 😀

    Now THAT would be something to see.

    It’s probably a few years too early for that though, I admit.

  8. Soulrise says:

    Zach, I’ve been looking for a feed for the Fight Network for awhile now but they don’t seem to have one as far as I can tell. If you do eventually find a feed can you please post it? Good luck and thanks!

  9. Ryan says:

    Think of it from Zuffa’s terms for a second.

    Why should they bother signing top lightweights?

    Their business model is building in house talent, on the cheap. Huerta probably had the standard 10 fight contract, and is up to 7/7 or 8/8. No way are they gonna pay someone like Joachim Hansen 30/30 for his first fight.

    The average fan doesn’t care about the quality of the MMA, just the names involved. They recognize Huerta, therefore it doesn’t matter who he’s fighting.

    As a fan, of course I think this is lame. But the business logic is perfect.

  10. They paid Heath Motherfucking Herring a metric assload, and I’m not so sure anyone, including your ‘average fan,’ had (or has) any idea who that is. Same with Minotauro – 200k for his first fight, but he’s not going to be putting anyone in seats anytime soon, especially after almost getting KOed by the aforementioned Herring.

  11. Jeremy (not that Jeremy) says:

    I think it might be a false argument to say that you have to either sign top lightweights or work up guys within your system. It implies that the guys in the system are not or cannot be as good as the top fighters outside the system.

    You can look at it as a short term/long term thing though, and that’s probably what Zuffa is doing. They ARE buying talent when they can get it as a package (WEC, etc) and they are using WEC as a developmental / feeder system even if they won’t admit it yet.

    I think UFC may have only recently gotten religion on lightweights though. Light Heavyweights and Heavyweights are an easier sell, because they’re going out there, primarily, with the intention of knocking each other’s blocks off. Less so in some other promotions, but that’s pretty much how it works in UFC.

    It’s a little frustrating to me that everyone thinks that the best solution to everything is to buy buy buy though. They’re making money, yes, but they’re taking less than you think they are (you see a lot of people making claims about $40 million PPV grosses as if UFC was taking all of that home, when in reality they’re getting about half (I think it’s a 60/40, but I don’t know if it is the outlet that gets 60 or if it’s UFC)). Their response to their recent strategy of buying fighters from Pride, buying the assets of Pride (and what have they gotten, really?), buying WEC (probably a loss leader), buying WFA (contracts only) etc has been to increase the number of events to increase their revenues to keep up with their spending binge. Of course, UFC gets shit for that too.

    Obviously, I don’t have access to the Zuffa P&L, but if the answer to everything is to spend half a million to 2.5 million dollars for one fighter for a four fight deal…then maybe you’re asking the wrong questions.

  12. Zack says:

    “They paid Heath Motherfucking Herring a metric assload”

    That’s because they acquired his WFA contract.

    “They’re making money, yes, but they’re taking less than you think they are”

    LOL

  13. Jonathan says:

    I wonder how the Hero’s numbers compare to the numbers that Pride would pull down for a similarly sized show? As I have said before, K-1 needs Akiyama back…but that is mostly because I really like seeing a guy fight. They have a potential star in Hideo Tokoro, but the guy has a nasty habit of losing.

    Maybe I have bitten into the Roger Huerta hype, but I think that he is a pretty good fighter. Still, I see him bloodied and bruised and on the end of a losing decision against Sherk.

  14. D.Capitated says:

    The UFC signed a $100 million dollar deal with Spike. I understand that they may not want to sign some of the top lightweights out there, but really, that sucks for us, the fans. I don’t think they’re gonna care too much.

    They have a potential star in Hideo Tokoro, but the guy has a nasty habit of losing.

    Tokoro’s a nice guy and all, but he’s just not elite level. At all. I mean, Black Mamba was pretty well exposed on Bodog St. Petersburg as being one dimensional, and that didn’t stop him from KOing Tokoro again.

  15. Grape Knee High says:

    Unlike Kid, I don’t think Tokoro’s ability is high enough that it can transcend his natural 145-ness as a fighter.

    Re: Huerta, I actually think the UFC is doing a good job. He’s got the Mexican heritage and the right look as fighter to make it easy for Dana to penetrate into dual markets (ie, white and Hispanic). Sure, what I’ve seen so far of him — coupled with the depth at 155 right now — doesn’t make me believe he’ll be champion any time soon, but it’s good to see that the UFC has the ability to groom a fighter properly and not throw potential marketability down the tubes just to chase the “best” fights for the hardcore fans.

  16. Smoogy says:

    Except for Rampage, the prominent guys brought over from the WFA acquisition (Herring and Machida) have been more or less buried. Herring has been put in two shitty situations since he lost to O’Brien and they pulled the plug on Machida’s debut for the fans at UFC 70. I’m not sure how many fights each guy has left but I’m guessing its no more than 1-2 each. But the way things have gone so far, I wouldn’t be surprised if the UFC decides to let both of them go once they fulfill their WFA deals. I’m not saying the UFC is ignorant of their respective talents (not entirely at least), but it appears they don’t like the bang they are getting for their buck.

  17. Body_Shots says:

    How has Heath been “buried”? He has been given very winnable fights back to back and has failed to be impressive.

    Machida, the same. His proposed opponents have been Hoger, Griffin, Heath. The reason why *Spike pulled the plug on airing his fight was because it was so god damn boring.

    LOL @ “buried”, this isn’t pro-wrestling, Zuffa wouldn’t of picked their contracts if didn’t believe they could help their company.

  18. Smoogy says:

    I’m suggesting they were relegated after their deals were bought up. Herring was punished for his O’Brien fight with a dark match vs. Imes, then a fight against a guy who, on paper, should’ve had no problem dispatching him.

    Machida is a little different. His UFC 70 fight wasn’t THAT bad (more exciting than Arlovski vs. Werdum), yet thats the first time I’ve seen a main card fight be promoted and take place without being aired. If the Rua vs. Machida fight had happened (its now confirmed to be Rua vs. Griffin) that would’ve been a terrible matchup for him, he essentially would have been positioned as a stepping stone for Shogun. I’m not saying he can’t beat Shogun (I think he can and I’m a huge, huge Little Inoki fan) but even if he did, he wouldn’t benefit any more than if he got an easier fight like vs. Bisping or Lambert or someone of that calibur.

    My point is that the matchmaking seemed to indicate that Zuffa did not want these two to be in a prime position for a renewal or raise when their deals are up. They’d apparently rather market their own homegrown guys who have long term deals at more “economical” rates.

  19. The Gaijin says:

    UFC is starting to turn into boxing with respect to certain fighters. UFC finds a guy that they really want to market – (and yes I realize unlike wrestling, they cannot make him win to legitimize him with the fans) – and then put them into fights that cater to their strengths and mask their weaknesses. And then they get themselves into big trouble when their guys that they’ve been coddling and marketing their asses off for end up losing. Then we get the crap like we see with Franklin and Liddell where they’re still marketed as the top guys, put back into matches that are tailor made to their strengths in hopes of pushing them back up to the belt again. Quit being so lazy and start establishing some of the new blood…PLEASE.

    Great business model but not really good for seeing the best vs. the best.

  20. Body_Shots says:

    More pro wrestling from you…

    I don’t believe Heath being put on the undercard was a ‘punishment’ per se, his last fight was god awful and he looked like shit. I don’t think a showcase fight against Imes deserves to be on a main card of a PPV.

    If you were a promoter, which fight would you replace with Heath’s?

    Grove vs. Belcher
    Okami vs. Swick
    Huerta vs. Garcia
    Koscheck vs. Sanchez
    Serra vs. St. Pierre

    Do I think think the UFC is going to get behind Heath and market him as this world beater like they did coming into the Fight night? No, and that has everything to do with him being an average fighter and nothing to do with some WFA agenda, too pro wrestling for pro wrestling.

    [Machida is a little different. His UFC 70 fight wasn’t THAT bad (more exciting than Arlovski vs. Werdum)]

    I wouldn’t say that, Arlovski/Werdum had a good first round, Machida/Heath had a good half of a round in the 3rd.

    […he wouldn’t benefit any more than if he got an easier fight like vs. Bisping or Lambert or someone of that calibur.]

    His first two fights were ‘easier’ fights, in one he looked good, in the other he stunk up the joint. Machida needs to be matched up against a fighter who won’t let him sit back, counter and throw 15 strikes per round. In that sense, a Shogun fight would of been a good match up.

    [They’d apparently rather market their own homegrown guys who have long term deals at more “economical” rates.]

    Like Shogun and Nogueria?

    There is some overlap but MMA (atleast in the US) is a lot different from wrestling, you have to look at it from a different mindset.

  21. Zach Arnold says:

    UFC gave Herring a big push, then he totally tanked against Jake O’Brien and compounded it by doing a chicken heel promo afterwards. They then set him up in a dark match against Brad Imes, who should have been tailor-made for Herring to beat, and Herring struggled to win! So, they sacrifice Herring against Nogueira, suspecting Nogueira would win in an entertaining fight (like the other two PRIDE fights). They played the Herring deal pretty straight-forward. Heath blew it big time.

  22. D.Capitated says:

    In a rare occasion, I agree with Zach. Rogan spent the entire broadcast up until about the second round of Herring/O’Brien verbally fellating the guy.

  23. Ivan Trembow says:

    Regarding UFC 75 being on Spike TV, one must consider that the “InDemand 1” PPV channel is already booked on September 8th with a major boxing PPV, which once again put Zuffa in the position to air it on a secondary PPV channel (not desirable under any circumstances), or on HBO (not possible until or unless there’s an HBO deal, which Zuffa said is coming “in a matter of weeks”), or on Spike TV.

  24. Smoogy says:

    Body_Shots, I don’t watch pro wrestling so I don’t really know why you keep bring it up.

    All I’m trying to get across is that they opted not to give Herring much of a push after that O’Brien fight, and they soured on Machida because the first couple of rounds vs David Heath were slow (even if Ryoto almost finished the fight). Considering they are going to have to pay these guys either way, it seems like the UFC is putting them on a trajectory to have minimal leverage when it comes time to renew contracts.

    P.S. The assertion that Machida “stunk up the joint” because Heath didn’t have the speed or skill to do anything to him is pretty silly.

  25. Michaelthebox says:

    Smoogy – the following is from a minute-by-minute from a reporter at UFC 70.

    “21:00 – after a second round where Heath can’t do anything and Machida won’t the highlight of the fight so far may be one of Machida’s corner men vigorously scratching his balls for a good 30 seconds. This is certainly more interesting than the fight, although I don’t know why.”

    Heath couldn’t do anything, but Machida stunk up the joint by refusing to do anything.

  26. Jordan Breen says:

    Lyoto refuses to do anything because he feels you all aren’t worthy of seeing his boss karate skillz.

  27. Zack says:

    ^^^ Don’t forget his sumo skillz either.

  28. 45 Huddle says:

    That is not a major boxing PPV. And the last time the UFC went straight ahead with a boxing PPV of that size, I know Comcast had the UFC on the primary PPV channel, and places boxing on the secondary channel. I doubt that had little if anything to do with the decision making. It has more to do with having fans pay out $120 in a month. Plus, those events were intended for HBO anyways.

    As for Alberto Crane…. Talk about complaining about nothing. If a fighter wants to make it, he has to fight good competition anyways. And if this wasn’t the proper fight for him, it is up to Alberto and his trainers/managers to make that decision. If they aren’t smart enough, then it’s his fault.

    Lastly, the UFC is NOTHING like boxing. They fill up their cards with talent. Yes, they build fighters, but they also have a lot of guys who need building. But at the end of the day, they do test these guys, and they test them hard. Once they think they are ready, they do what they did with Koscheck….

    They feed him Sanchez…. And then when he gets by him, they give him GSP. And if gets by him, he gets Serra/Hughes. That is one tough road to the championship. If that is like boxing, then I must be watching something else on HBO…..

  29. D.Capitated says:

    That is not a major boxing PPV. And the last time the UFC went straight ahead with a boxing PPV of that size, I know Comcast had the UFC on the primary PPV channel, and places boxing on the secondary channel.

    Fernando Vargas/Ricardo Mayorga will likely do around 400,000 buys.

  30. Ivan Trembow says:

    It’s not necessarily a matter of how big Vargas/Mayorga will be (depends on how the mainstream media reacts to the Ortiz-Shamrock-like pull-apart they did), it’s a matter of Showtime PPV already having the slot booked with InDemand PPV. For UFC 75 to be on InDemand 1 in primetime, InDemand would have to cancel the date with Showtime PPV, which their contract likely prohibits them from doing after they’ve already secured the date. So the remaining choices for the UFC were Spike TV or HBO, if indeed there is an HBO deal.

  31. Ivan Trembow says:

    Also, I agree with 45 Huddle that the amount of “building fighters” that goes on in the UFC is nowhere near the level that exists in boxing. While it’s a much lower amount than in boxing, I just don’t think it’s accurate when the UFC or anyone else says that the amount of “fighter building” in the UFC is zero or anywhere close to zero. There is just a lot more in boxing.

  32. D.Capitated says:

    Record building is seen as an important part of boxing these days. Prospects are rarely put in against each other until they’ve had around 20 pro fights. Undefeated records are seen as being very, very important in the sport. A guy who is 21-0 often garners much more attention than a fighter who is even 35-1. That doesn’t happen in MMA because promoters hire fighters almost as independent contractors early in their careers to flesh out shows, rather than because they have financial interest from very early on. How many 1-0 fighters from a local MMA dojo have managers when fighting for $300?

  33. klown says:

    What’s a “chicken heel promo” ? Is that some pro-wrestling lingo I’m not catching?

  34. Tomer Chen says:

    What’s a “chicken heel promo” ? Is that some pro-wrestling lingo I’m not catching?

    It’s Pro Wrestling-speak for a cowardly escape interview (IE: “It wasn’t my fault because…”).

  35. klown says:

    Thanks!

  36. Lastly, the UFC is NOTHING like boxing. They fill up their cards with talent. Yes, they build fighters, but they also have a lot of guys who need building. But at the end of the day, they do test these guys, and they test them hard. Once they think they are ready, they do what they did with Koscheck….

    They feed him Sanchez…. And then when he gets by him, they give him GSP. And if gets by him, he gets Serra/Hughes. That is one tough road to the championship. If that is like boxing, then I must be watching something else on HBO…..

    45 Huddle is dead on. If you look at the match making, Zuffa let’s the TUFers cannabalize each other on UFNs and surviving TUFers get feed to even tougher competition to build up the world-class fighter (eg. A Silva vs Leben, Swick vs Okami, Griffin vs Ortiz, Quarry vs Franklin). If the TUFer manages to get past the world-class guy, ONLY then are they in title contention (Koschek has to get past GSP). People complain that TUFers are on some of fast track to the title, but that’s far from the truth.

    As for Huerta, the LW title match ups are already set for the year. UFC is grooming Huerta. Nothing wrong with that.

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