Comments on: The product is growing stale http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/ Thu, 09 Feb 2012 13:14:39 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.2 hourly 1 By: Zrazys http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/comment-page-2/#comment-31140 Zrazys Fri, 13 Jul 2007 22:42:43 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/#comment-31140 "rednecks" in the audience booing? Last time I checked, rednecks were blue collar white Southerners. Unless they're moving out to Las Vegas in large numbers, I don't think rednecks (the PC nigger for self-rightous/elite whites) are the problem. “rednecks” in the audience booing? Last time I checked, rednecks were blue collar white Southerners. Unless they’re moving out to Las Vegas in large numbers, I don’t think rednecks (the PC nigger for self-rightous/elite whites) are the problem.

]]> By: Randy Rowles http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/comment-page-2/#comment-30950 Randy Rowles Thu, 12 Jul 2007 01:14:31 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/#comment-30950 In the interest of beating a dead horse, here's a list of upcoming UFC fights we already know about for the rest of 2007...add in the ones we don't know about yet (and a lot of the undercard fights that I haven't listed here that are all competitive), and I can't figure out an MMA fan could be anything but excited now that the best of the best in the world are mostly all together. Randy Couture vs. Gabriel Gonzaga Josh Koscheck vs. Georges St. Pierre Marcus Aurelio vs. Clay Guida Quinton Jackson vs. Dan Henderson Mirko Cro Cop vs. Cheick Kongo Michael Bisping vs. Matt Hamill Chuck Liddell vs. Wanderlei Silva Lyoto Machida vs. Mauricio Rua Jon Fitch vs. Diego Sanchez Anderson Silva vs. Rich Franklin (Part II) Rashad Evans vs. Tito Ortiz (Part II) Sean Sherk vs. BJ Penn Matt Serra vs. Matt Hughes In the interest of beating a dead horse, here’s a list of upcoming UFC fights we already know about for the rest of 2007…add in the ones we don’t know about yet (and a lot of the undercard fights that I haven’t listed here that are all competitive), and I can’t figure out an MMA fan could be anything but excited now that the best of the best in the world are mostly all together.

Randy Couture vs. Gabriel Gonzaga

Josh Koscheck vs. Georges St. Pierre

Marcus Aurelio vs. Clay Guida

Quinton Jackson vs. Dan Henderson

Mirko Cro Cop vs. Cheick Kongo

Michael Bisping vs. Matt Hamill

Chuck Liddell vs. Wanderlei Silva

Lyoto Machida vs. Mauricio Rua

Jon Fitch vs. Diego Sanchez

Anderson Silva vs. Rich Franklin (Part II)

Rashad Evans vs. Tito Ortiz (Part II)

Sean Sherk vs. BJ Penn

Matt Serra vs. Matt Hughes

]]> By: Jonathan http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/comment-page-2/#comment-30926 Jonathan Wed, 11 Jul 2007 20:54:02 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/#comment-30926 Why is everyone either hating on the UFC and loving Pride or hating on Pride and loving the UFC. I was a big fan of Pride, as I have siad many times before. I just liked the way that they did their shows and pretty much everything about it. I am a big fan of the Japanese scene as a whole, but that does not mean that you can't also like the other product. I would like to see everyone try to get along more here...this place is not Sherdog. Why is everyone either hating on the UFC and loving Pride or hating on Pride and loving the UFC. I was a big fan of Pride, as I have siad many times before. I just liked the way that they did their shows and pretty much everything about it. I am a big fan of the Japanese scene as a whole, but that does not mean that you can’t also like the other product. I would like to see everyone try to get along more here…this place is not Sherdog.

]]> By: Zack http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/comment-page-2/#comment-30859 Zack Wed, 11 Jul 2007 05:55:42 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/#comment-30859 Sergio...you're not wrong. The undercards of all the PPV's before the beginning of the TUF era were VERY solid. Sergio…you’re not wrong. The undercards of all the PPV’s before the beginning of the TUF era were VERY solid.

]]> By: SergioTX http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/comment-page-2/#comment-30830 SergioTX Tue, 10 Jul 2007 23:26:29 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/#comment-30830 "I disagree to an extent. Pride marketed the fighters, and UFC markets their brand." They way UFC markets their brand however is centered around the fighter. Yes, they try to convince you the UFC is the best. By proxy, their fighters must be the best. Agreed, though, Pride put together some phenomenal match-ups in the past few years. But rankings aren't the end all, be all. I always maintained that UFC's matchmaking, while not perfect, was much better than Pride's. Rankings aren't everything. “I disagree to an extent. Pride marketed the fighters, and UFC markets their brand.”

They way UFC markets their brand however is centered around the fighter. Yes, they try to convince you the UFC is the best. By proxy, their fighters must be the best.

Agreed, though, Pride put together some phenomenal match-ups in the past few years. But rankings aren’t the end all, be all.

I always maintained that UFC’s matchmaking, while not perfect, was much better than Pride’s. Rankings aren’t everything.

]]> By: MMA Geek http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/comment-page-2/#comment-30825 MMA Geek Tue, 10 Jul 2007 21:58:53 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/#comment-30825 It's poorly reasoned and exceptionally bias writing like this that makes me want to take Fightopinion off my bookmarks and it will keep this site from getting new readers. I don't presume that my voice is greater than any other, so all I can do is just vote with my mouse. It’s poorly reasoned and exceptionally bias writing like this that makes me want to take Fightopinion off my bookmarks and it will keep this site from getting new readers. I don’t presume that my voice is greater than any other, so all I can do is just vote with my mouse.

]]> By: Zach Arnold http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/comment-page-2/#comment-30763 Zach Arnold Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:40:51 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/#comment-30763 Absolutely no offense taken. Any and all viewpoints are allowed on the site. Absolutely no offense taken. Any and all viewpoints are allowed on the site.

]]> By: Mr. Phelps http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/comment-page-2/#comment-30761 Mr. Phelps Tue, 10 Jul 2007 07:26:49 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/#comment-30761 Zack, much respect. Fightopinion is one of the best mma resources on the web. I'm incredibly thankful to you for that. As well, the radio show is looked forward to each week. Despite the fact that the three of you seem to agree on everything even though there is ample room for contention I do enjoy the show's format and appreciate the non-fighter / industry interviews and perspectives that separate the radio show from the plethora of other shows on the web. The knowledge you and Jeff bring to the many interesting legal and business issues in MMA is top-notch and when you write the book on Pride and all of its backstage scandals (you should, by the way) I'll be first in line for a hardcover copy. That being said, I believe Bullock has a point. Editorials like this one are great for promoting discussion but are really best suited for the Sherdog forums. No disrespect to Mr. Leidecker but Fight Opinion is a more thoughtful website and deserves better. I can certainly appreciate a different opinion - hell, your writing about what was TRULY going on in Pride a year ago completely turned me around to a frame of reference more appropriate when considering DSE's business model - but I expect a more thoughtful, well-considered, and unique perspective to the fight scene from the editorials on Fight Opinion. I know. Everyone has their own opinion on how you can do your job, Zack. I'm sure that really rubs you the wrong way. However, I appreciate the forum you make available to your readers to express different opinions and I admire your willingness to at least listen to our thoughts. I hope you will consider a higher standard when publishing editorial content on the website in the future. Zack, much respect. Fightopinion is one of the best mma resources on the web. I’m incredibly thankful to you for that. As well, the radio show is looked forward to each week. Despite the fact that the three of you seem to agree on everything even though there is ample room for contention I do enjoy the show’s format and appreciate the non-fighter / industry interviews and perspectives that separate the radio show from the plethora of other shows on the web. The knowledge you and Jeff bring to the many interesting legal and business issues in MMA is top-notch and when you write the book on Pride and all of its backstage scandals (you should, by the way) I’ll be first in line for a hardcover copy.
That being said, I believe Bullock has a point. Editorials like this one are great for promoting discussion but are really best suited for the Sherdog forums. No disrespect to Mr. Leidecker but Fight Opinion is a more thoughtful website and deserves better. I can certainly appreciate a different opinion – hell, your writing about what was TRULY going on in Pride a year ago completely turned me around to a frame of reference more appropriate when considering DSE’s business model – but I expect a more thoughtful, well-considered, and unique perspective to the fight scene from the editorials on Fight Opinion.
I know. Everyone has their own opinion on how you can do your job, Zack. I’m sure that really rubs you the wrong way. However, I appreciate the forum you make available to your readers to express different opinions and I admire your willingness to at least listen to our thoughts. I hope you will consider a higher standard when publishing editorial content on the website in the future.

]]> By: klown http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/comment-page-2/#comment-30749 klown Tue, 10 Jul 2007 04:30:53 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/#comment-30749 For all the hate this article's getting, it has generated the most comments-per-editorial I've seen yet on this site... My 2 cents: (Disclaimer: I love Pride and UFC) The worst thing about Pride for me was referee stoppages. On rare occasions, fights were stopped early like Sakuraba vs Ken Shamrock (KS turned his back and the ref stepped in). Much more often, massacres were allowed to go on while the ref screamed "Fight!" at an unconscious mounted dude getting pummeled. Recent examples: Don Frye turned into a bloody punching back by James Thomspon, Yoshida's unconscious corpse being literally dragged by the referee to the center of the ring to receive more punishment from the aforementioned JT, and several brutal beatings of Sakuraba, (and incidentally, several more murders of Sakuraba staged by K-1 as well). By and large, I feel the UFC refs are more responsible and care more about the fighters. This is probably not out of the goodness of their hearts, but due to the stricter regulatory culture in the US. And that's a good thing. For all the hate this article’s getting, it has generated the most comments-per-editorial I’ve seen yet on this site…

My 2 cents:
(Disclaimer: I love Pride and UFC)
The worst thing about Pride for me was referee stoppages. On rare occasions, fights were stopped early like Sakuraba vs Ken Shamrock (KS turned his back and the ref stepped in). Much more often, massacres were allowed to go on while the ref screamed “Fight!” at an unconscious mounted dude getting pummeled.

Recent examples: Don Frye turned into a bloody punching back by James Thomspon, Yoshida’s unconscious corpse being literally dragged by the referee to the center of the ring to receive more punishment from the aforementioned JT, and several brutal beatings of Sakuraba, (and incidentally, several more murders of Sakuraba staged by K-1 as well).

By and large, I feel the UFC refs are more responsible and care more about the fighters. This is probably not out of the goodness of their hearts, but due to the stricter regulatory culture in the US. And that’s a good thing.

]]> By: Zack http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/comment-page-2/#comment-30737 Zack Tue, 10 Jul 2007 00:32:45 +0000 http://www.fightopinion.com/2007/07/08/the-product-is-growing-stale/#comment-30737 "Pride marketed the spectacle, UFC markets the sport." I disagree to an extent. Pride marketed the fighters, and UFC markets their brand. As much as Pride wanted to push Yoshida/Ogawa or anyone else who was super hot, they still put on legit fights between the best guys in the world. Off the top of my head, I can only think of a handful of fights in recent years where the legit #1 guy fought the #2 or #3 guy. They were: 1) Fedor vs Cro Cop (#2 on most peoples lists, but you could argue #3) 2) Fedor vs Nog 2 & 3 (basically the same fight cuz of the NC on the 2nd one. Nog was either #2 or #3 depending on your list.) 3) Gomi vs Kawajiri (def. top 3 at the time) 4) Gomi vs Sakurai (def. top 3 at the time) 5) Hughes vs GSP 2 (legit #1 vs #2) 6) Wanderlei vs Quinton 2 (Quinton would have been ranked either 2 or 3, depending on where you wanted to put Randy) “Pride marketed the spectacle, UFC markets the sport.”

I disagree to an extent. Pride marketed the fighters, and UFC markets their brand. As much as Pride wanted to push Yoshida/Ogawa or anyone else who was super hot, they still put on legit fights between the best guys in the world. Off the top of my head, I can only think of a handful of fights in recent years where the legit #1 guy fought the #2 or #3 guy. They were:

1) Fedor vs Cro Cop (#2 on most peoples lists, but you could argue #3)

2) Fedor vs Nog 2 & 3 (basically the same fight cuz of the NC on the 2nd one. Nog was either #2 or #3 depending on your list.)

3) Gomi vs Kawajiri (def. top 3 at the time)

4) Gomi vs Sakurai (def. top 3 at the time)

5) Hughes vs GSP 2 (legit #1 vs #2)

6) Wanderlei vs Quinton 2 (Quinton would have been ranked either 2 or 3, depending on where you wanted to put Randy)

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