Comments on: Friday fight headlines: More MMA talk in boxing articles

By: FightOpinion.com - Your Global Connection to the Fight Industry.

FightOpinion.com - Your Global Connection to the Fight Industry. — Mon, 07 May 2007 12:37:52 +0000

[...] guess Mr. Whitley should meet Kazuyoshi Ishii right now. MMA does have many advantages over boxing, not the least of which is it’s run by savvy [...]

By: Mike

Mike — Sat, 05 May 2007 06:25:15 +0000

Zach, no offense, but I didn’t vote in that poll because I don’t see things as being that black and white. I mean, yeah, if it turned out that a leading promoter was a child molester or something, I’d probably stop paying money to watch that promotion. But I think everyone goes in understanding the fight game is a rough and tumble sort of business.

By: D. Capitated

D. Capitated — Fri, 04 May 2007 16:42:11 +0000

HEROâ€™s is a secondary, if not tertiary product right now for K-1. I would not be shocked to see K-1 give up on it or spin it off to someone else.

Of course K-1 still highly promotes their kickboxing product, but that they’d give up on HERO’s? What is this based on? They’re still drawing strong numbers and strong crowds for it. That its often features freakshow bouts should be thrown out the window, given that PRIDE had more than a few of their own.

Pure MMA plays in Japan – youâ€™re talking Pancrase, Cage Force, etc. Groups that can draw 2,000-6,000. The days of consistent shows over 10,000 for MMA in Japan right now are finished without a major TV network backing a promotion.

So HERO’s doesn’t count because its not “pure MMA”, whatever that’s supposed to be, so MMA in Japan is dead? Of course, this depends on your belief that Zuffa will never actually operate PRIDE, and that’s nothing more than rampant speculation on your part, or that no one would jump to fill the void.

By: Euthyphro

Euthyphro — Fri, 04 May 2007 15:32:37 +0000

Seems to me like Pro Elite can justify a higher share price than the IFL. Solid TV deal, great allegiances within the industry, fan goodwill from their webcasts, name fighters on their cards. They’re better positioned than the IFL in almost every way — the exception being the network TV slot, although the IFL has grossly misused that “advantage” thus far.

By: Liger05

Liger05 — Fri, 04 May 2007 15:29:22 +0000

Out of all the MMA/Puroresu orgs in Japan, who gets the biggest gates on a consistant basis then. Is it Noah with there monthly Budokan shows?

By: Zach Arnold

Zach Arnold — Fri, 04 May 2007 15:10:21 +0000

HERO’s is a secondary, if not tertiary product right now for K-1. I would not be shocked to see K-1 give up on it or spin it off to someone else.

The core product for K-1 is kickboxing and will continue to remain so. That’s their bread and butter. K-1 will never be a pure MMA play in Japan.

Pure MMA plays in Japan – you’re talking Pancrase, Cage Force, etc. Groups that can draw 2,000-6,000. The days of consistent shows over 10,000 for MMA in Japan right now are finished without a major TV network backing a promotion.

By: Grape Knee High

Grape Knee High — Fri, 04 May 2007 15:04:32 +0000

Oh, and with regard to your scandal comment, you seem to have trouble separating a “media scandal” from a genuine “business scandal” that has the potential to affect the bottom line.

Steroids are a media scandal; people still watch cycling, the Olympics, baseball, football, hockey, etc no matter how many performance enhancing substance scandals there are and no matter how much sports writers opine about how terrible it is.

Also, you seem to be oblivious to the fact that US sports fans are much more tolerant of social scandals than Japanese sports fans. Witness the fact that Ray Lewis was tried for murder and is still very popular. Michael Irvin: the pot, the hookers, the cocaine. Still an NFL commentator on FOX. More arrests this past year of NFL players than ever, yet the NFL is more popular than ever. And that’s just the tip of the iceberg.

As MMA becomes more and more US-centric, what Japanese society feels is an issue (Yakuza) is less and less relevant to the UFC. I don’t know why other people might be minimizing these little mini-scandals you’ve been bringing up over the past few weeks, but in my opinion, they simply do not matter because it will not affect Zuffa’s bottom line (ie, PPV buys).

By: Grape Knee High

Grape Knee High — Fri, 04 May 2007 13:27:27 +0000

Actually, if you really wanted to be really precise, you ideally want to look at the Enterprise Value of a company over Market Cap, because that tells you exactly how much net capital you would need to pony up to buy the company (since this number includes adds debt and subtracts cash from Market Cap).

By: Grape Knee High

Grape Knee High — Fri, 04 May 2007 13:23:50 +0000

The stock price itself does not matter when comparing the value of two companies; it’s just an arbitrary number. You want to look at total market capitalization, which is share price multiplied by the total number of outstanding shares.

In this case, the market caps look like $514 million for Pro Elite versus $150 million for IFL, so the market is saying Pro Elite is worth about 3.5x more than the IFL.

By: D. Capitated

D. Capitated — Fri, 04 May 2007 12:57:05 +0000

The problem comparing the issues with boxing and MMA is that MMA’s issues have been essentially relegated to a single country that no one really follows (Japan), and that they haven’t really affected the fashion in which the fights themselves are carried out. There haven’t been legions of awful decisions for major bouts that would burn crowds and turn them away, unlike what has happened in boxing.

The claim that MMA is “crippled” in Japan is a massive overstatement. You’d think by saying such that K-1 is doing 5.0s and not 17.0s for their TV shows. Tax evasion didn’t kill K-1: In fact, HERO’s came after that and has been wildly successful. That their ratings haven’t been as astronomical in recent months have more to do with Kid Yamamoto’s Olympic dreams and greased up judoka than yakuza involvement.