Isnt all this business with Pride just another part of the cycle? The fight game history in Japan shows that promotions can be hot for a period of time and then take a downturn to make way for another promotion. Nobody would of thought New Japan could of destroyed there Tokoyo dome business after drawing so much money there in the 90’s. Would anybody have expected to see established fight magazines go out of business in Japan like they have? Seems to me the Fight or MMA industry in Japan is on a downturn and even if Pride is sold to Zuffa it doesnt suddenly mean things will be ok.

Here’s a simpler question: Have any of these defunct pro wrestling orgs whose assets you claim could not be sold ever had the consistently high mainstream TV ratings and consistently high attendance that PRIDE has had? And were these assets put up for sale at a time when attendance and popularity were still high?

“A big financial sinkhole. And it’s going to create some fires with K-1 in Japan. It’s more trouble than its worth at this point to keep PRIDE going as a business entity given the current atmosphere in Japan.”

Could be. But it also might not be. Zuffa turned around the UFC, which was also hemorraging money before TUF. If the Fertittas manage to get PRIDE back on TV, I have no doubt they’ll succeed. If they cannot, they’ll either streamline PRIDE into a much smaller operation or close up shop entirely.

I don’t think we disagree on the facts; what we do disagree on is their chance of success. If the Fertittas actually end up buying PRIDE for the rumored $65MM, I have no doubt it’ll be more than an asset grab and that their plan is to get back on Japanese TV (and that they are confident they can do so). I guess we’ll see in a few years whether its you or the Fertittas that are right; or a few months to see whether the deal is ever finalized.

1. You didn’t anwer my question about how many of the defunct pro wrestling orgs were as popular as PRIDE is. Critical mass does matter.

FMW did big gates at places like Kawasaki Stadium with no TV. UWF-International, which had their Budokan shows air on Tokyo Broadcasting System, did good business. So did WAR with Tenryu. PRIDE was basically a spinoff of UWF-Inter once UWF-Inter got crushed by New Japan in their interpromotional series. Remember, PRIDE’s roots stem from UWF-Inter and at the time of the interpromotional war from late ‘95-mid ‘96 for the three big Tokyo Dome shows, they did huge business.

I think part of the reason why the Fertittas buying PRIDE offends you so much is because there’s now a chance that PRIDE brand could survive, instead of floating into the oblivion like you so obviously are waiting for.

If Zuffa LLC does an asset purchase and simply wants to absorb PRIDE into UFC, fine by me. If they want to actually try to prop PRIDE up and run it, they’re going to run into a big money pit. A big financial sinkhole. And it’s going to create some fires with K-1 in Japan. It’s more trouble than its worth at this point to keep PRIDE going as a business entity given the current atmosphere in Japan.

Have foreigners even really run a major company? If I’m not mistaken, Antonio Pena had a hand in FMW at one point. Other than that, nothing comes to mind. Recently, at least.

2. Just because something has never happened yet, doesn’t mean that it will *never* happen in the future.

3. I think part of the reason why the Fertittas buying PRIDE offends you so much is because there’s now a chance that PRIDE brand could survive, instead of floating into the oblivion like you so obviously are waiting for. No one is disputing that PRIDE under DSE is in bad shape.

Glad to see a gaijin pro-wrestling fan be able to speak so authoritatively about marketing in Japan. Besides, how many of these defunct pro-wrestling orgs pulled high ratings on NYE? Or regularly packed 40,000 seat arenas? I don’t know the answer, but I’d guess the number is very low. Or zero.

PRIDE’s past history isn’t helping out their business now in Japan. You asked me what I think about the value of their company assets in Japan right now, and I gave you a totally honest opinion.

You’ve been using the slam against me for being a Japanese pro-wrestling fan. Well, in order to understand a lot of how the fight game works over there, studying up on Japanese pro-wrestling history and marketing is a pretty damn solid way to understand how business is done in that country on many levels.

“In the history of the Japanese fight game since Rikidozan (who portrayed a Japanese hero and hid his Korean heritage), how many gaijin Presidents or bosses of fight companies have been successful long-term in Japan?”

I don’t know and I don’t care.

Just because there have been none (or all failed) does not mean that the Fertitta’s will fail. They might. They might not. It’s a calculated risk, just as any business deal is.

Since the ‘modern era’ when Rikidozan started doing business in 1951 (and we’re looking at nearly 60 years of business in the Japanese fight game since then), the answer to the question about foreign bosses or Presidents in the fight game having success long-term in that country is zero. None. Look at the list of important players – Rikidozan, Inoki, Baba, Toyonobori, Choshu (who had success as a matchmaker but a terrible owner/boss of WJ Pro), Sakaguchi, Arai, Onita, The Matsunaga Brothers, Rikidozan’s sons (specifically Mitsuo Momota), Misawa, Mutoh, etc. All native blood.

The problem is that you’re looking at this situation as a person that wants PRIDE to die, and die soon.

I hate to break it to you, but it is dying. I don’t have or need it to ‘want’ it to die in order for it to die. It’s just reality right now for PRIDE. They wouldn’t be attempting to sell the company if it was healthy, would they? I’ve seen and wrote about plenty of Japanese fight game companies that have come and gone. PRIDE is likely just another example of a dying company in the Japanese fight business.

Glad to see a gaijin pro-wrestling fan be able to speak so authoritatively about marketing in Japan. Besides, how many of these defunct pro-wrestling orgs pulled high ratings on NYE? Or regularly packed 40,000 seat arenas? I don’t know the answer, but I’d guess the number is very low. Or zero.

“In the history of the Japanese fight game since Rikidozan (who portrayed a Japanese hero and hid his Korean heritage), how many gaijin Presidents or bosses of fight companies have been successful long-term in Japan?”

I don’t know and I don’t care.

Just because there have been none (or all failed) does not mean that the Fertitta’s will fail. They might. They might not. It’s a calculated risk, just as any business deal is.

The problem is that you’re looking at this situation as a person that wants PRIDE to die, and die soon. The Fertittas are no doubt looking at this strategically as businessmen to see how they might possibly leverage this acquisition into international dominance of MMA, not just the US.

So…uh…what’s this magical formula you’re using to get this number? I mean, besides “I pulled it out of my ass.” I understand that you feel PRIDE is not worth much but that’s not a quantitative analysis.

You’re dealing with a company that is allegedly $8-9 million USD in debt. If PRIDE’s VTR collection was so valuable, wouldn’t you think that would be helping them generate revenue in Japan right now during lean times without TV? If PRIDE contracts were so valuable, then why are many of their top stars not under deals right now? If the PRIDE name is so strong as a value play, why aren’t TV networks jumping to get on board with the program (considering that it drew good ratings on free TV)?

There have been plenty of Japanese fight companies (mostly in wrestling) in the past that have folded up shop and not managed to sell its assets because those assets were not deemed to be high-value. FMW boss Shoichi Arai killed himself after his company was $3 million USD in debt. All Japan Women folded after that deal was anywhere from $27-30 million USD in debt (wonder how things got that out of control?). All Japan Women had an incredibly strong brand name. So did FMW in relation to Atsushi Onita (who ended up becoming a politician due to his fame).

The mistake people are making is taking brand recognition and equating it with brand value in Japan. Doesn’t work.

Look up Carlos Ghosn. Foreign CEO of Nissan who was brought in to turn around the Japanese car company. Did a fantastic job, which basically turned him into a celebrity in Japan.

I’m not saying that the Fertittas can and will do this. Just that it is possible for foreign management to come in and succeed.

Carlos Ghosn is in Japan. Dana White or the Fertittas are not moving to Japan any time soon.

Look at the actual history of the fight game in Japan. Since you claim I’m a fanboy pulling stats out of my ass, let me ask you a simple question:

In the history of the Japanese fight game since Rikidozan (who portrayed a Japanese hero and hid his Korean heritage), how many gaijin Presidents or bosses of fight companies have been successful long-term in Japan?

I await to hear your answer.

“Second, do you really think that Japanese office employees are going to take their orders from a gaijin boss or from someone who knows where they and their family live?”

Look up Carlos Ghosn. Foreign CEO of Nissan who was brought in to turn around the Japanese car company. Did a fantastic job, which basically turned him into a celebrity in Japan.

I’m not saying that the Fertittas can and will do this. Just that it is possible for foreign management to come in and succeed.

On this point, I also disagree with you that PRIDE is “too hot to handle” for Japanese TV. Foreign (and clearly non-Yakuza) ownership of PRIDE could be *exactly* what Japanese TV executives are looking for in trying to get it back on public TV.