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Response to UFC & WWE article
By Zach Arnold | October 11, 2006
By Zach Arnold
The comments and mail in regards to Luke Nicholson’s article were voluminous. I generally agree with his position and the tone of his article.
I also view his article not as just an American wrestling fan, but as a Japanese wrestling fan. The history that has transpired in Japan does somewhat translate to what we may be seeing in America, despite the fact that the Japanese look at pro-wrestling more as a sport and American fans have been conditioned to look at wrestling as simply entertainment.
If you look at the responses to Luke’s article and you view the breakdown of boxing/MMA fans versus wrestling/MMA fans, you can see why Ken vs. Tito clicked more with the wrestling/MMA fans than the boxing fans. As Mr. Roadblock points out, Ken vs. Tito (which drew huge business this year for UFC) is very much like pro-wrestling. In fact, both men are fans of professional wrestling. Ken Shamrock was a professional wrestler before he went into UFC. Tito Ortiz worked as a guest referee for TNA a little over a year ago.
There is a crossover between MMA fighters and wrestlers, and the level of respect that they have for each other is pretty significant.
To me, UFC is a significant threat both to boxing and wrestling because Dana White has a background in boxing and also has been studying the elements of WWE closely. I give him a lot of credit (and so does Luke) when it comes to marketing.
Topics: All Topics, Media, MMA, UFC, Zach Arnold | 12 Comments » | Permalink | Trackback |
There are a lot of misunderstanding with those who feel that the UFC booking and promoting philosophy derives mostly from boxing than pro wrestling.
Promoting, and marketing for that matter, in pro wrestling takes two men and gives the fans a reason to care about them. Whether it be their previous outstanding athletic accomplishments or because they have a pretty face. Then you give these two men a reason to fight. It could be for a world title, ego, braggin rights, money, pride, livelihood, vindication, revenge, entertainment for the fans, or even the heart of a beautiful young woman. There is interest and the fight must and will happen.
And then you parallel this to boxing. Then think of the reasons why people would care about these boxers, and then think of the reasons why these boxers would want to fight each other. IT’S THE SAME THING.
The only difference is that one has predetermined outcomes and the other doesn’t (Well, on a regular basis).
I guess you could say I came from a pro-wrestling fan background and indeed my exposure to UWFI (worked-shoots) and then UFC (from the second event) came from a magazine called Power Slam over here in the UK.
There are similarities between how wrestling, UFC, and on occasion boxing is promoted. There are more similarities between UFC and wrestling. That is a good thing. The WWE in particular has created some of the greatest video pieces hyping fights in history. Applied to a real sport that takes on a new resonance.
And the formula they have struck on to build fights has mixed things you see in boxing (the two best fighters Couture v Liddell in a series of matches), with the pro-wrestling (two guys who have a deep seated grudge built by promos – Ortiz v Shamrock & the champion trying to avenge his only defeat Hughes v Penn). Whether that is in any way a concious action is debatable – I think it is just the actions of a smart promotor in any situation.
The business model of UFC closely follow the WWE, not boxing. It uses TV to build an audience and hype fights which they then make money on through PPV (and merchandise). I don’t know if the Spike TV deal makes them much money?
But there are real differences and the rubbish that is talked about the UFC acting like the WWF in the mid 80s is just that, rubbish. The situation is completely different – the UFC if anything is trying to muscle in on boxing’s territory not it’s competitors. In fact it is the competition who are trying to ride on the UFC’s coat tails – before the UFC broke through (with the Ultimate Fighter) there was no mainstream MMA to tap. They created the market, not took it over and changed it.
Technically your argument is right. I give you credit. However…
If you look at the wrestling landscape before Vince McMahon starting taking the WWF national in America in 1984, everything was very much regionalized. The biggest player at the same in terms of cable was Georgia Championship Wrestling on the Superstation (WWF was on USA Network and MSG Network, then came Tuesday Night Titans), but the Briscos sold out to McMahon (creating the infamous Black Saturday). McMahon ended up getting paid to leave the network.
At that time, there really wasn’t a national player as far as wrestling was concerned. It was fragmented. Vince McMahon took a business that Americans had come to associate with being regionalized and he literally created a national wrestling company, something that no one had ever done before. He was smarter than everyone else in terms of understanding the upgrades in television, production, and technology. In this instance, McMahon built the first true national American wrestling company (just like UFC has built the first true national American MMA company).
But Zuffa *inherited* the UFC’s brand name when they bought the company. That name was created not on smart moves by smart execs but on the brutality and shock value of this kind of event happening in North America.
I agree with those saying that the only reason people are seeing a large group of similarities in how the UFC and WWE run their business is because there are inherant similarities between almost all promotional kinds of events. I could find the kind of things you described in the past two posts all over the place … in boxing matches, in movies, in television, in reality shows. I am a nightclub promoter and I can see similarities between many of the UFC’s promotional tactics in my own business. You can infer comparison easily because when it comes down to it, there are only so many ways to market and sell an event.
The reason people are so heated about this argument is not because you are pointing out similarities between the UFC and WWE. They are pissed because you are implying without any kind of proof that “has been studying the elements of WWE closely.” Your proof is these similarities. Our point is: That is not proof. While this site is called FightOpinion, your claim is not put as an opinion but rather a fact.
Anyways, as a final comment I want to say that I have always been an MMA fan but am also an on/off wrestling fan. So these comments aren’t coming from an embarrased purist who doesn’t want MMA ‘tainted’ by wrestling.
“I also view his article not as just an American wrestling fan, but as a Japanese wrestling fan.”
Are you saying you’re asian+american? Or do you mean a fan OF japanese wrestling.
Shamrock and Severn both were pro wrestlers before becoming star fighters in ufc, and the original ufc owes a lot of its popularity to them(after Gracie)
One thing i’ve noticed ever since the mma explosion is a deluge of poorly thought out articles riddled with typo’s on most of the major sites. This can be attributed to no (or just poor) editorial guidance, as well as rushing to get content out to “compete” with other sites.
I am white. I am a fan of Japanese professional wrestling for many years.
Yes, Shamrock worked independents in the early 90s in America, he then worked UWF (2nd version) in late 1990 before the promotion was halted. Then he went over with Funaki to Pancrase in 1993. He had a Pancrase fight only a few days before fighting at UFC 1.
I let the individual posters on the site write their own pieces. If they want me to spellcheck or grammar-check them, I can do so. If not, I am not going to sweat (any errors can be fixed after the article is posted).
Hey Zach, you are forgetting that Shamrock also fought in Pro Wrestling Fujiwara Gumi, which pretty much became Pancrase.
Ryan put it best. The UFC is not doing anything that isn’t business and marketing 101.
Red Sox vs the Yankees, Knicks vs Bulls, Haggler vs Lenard, Chamberlain vs Russel, Lakers vs Celtics. Are we to believe that all rivalries are the result of some wrestling-like “work”. I think the general public like to see people or teams compete and hype is really just gravy that makes it more entertaining.
Some posters here make it sound as though no rivalry would exist if not for pro-wrestling.
Thanks for clearing that up Zach.
The “deluge of articles” does not refer to this site and its commentary but to the articles from mmaweakly, Mainstream media and sherdog which provided this waste of time…
http://www.sherdog.com/news/articles.asp?n_id=5850
While this is off topic, here’s an excerpt from it.
“Now, I wasn’t in B.J.’s body that night and by the time my column was written, edited and posted, I had no idea about his injury. If that injury is what hindered Penn from continuing his whipping of Matt Hughes (Pictures), then my apologies. B.J., I honestly didn’t know about it when I wrote the piece. But if this injury is merely a ruse to cover up a lack of training, then you only hurt yourself.”
Whoever wrote this didn’t even sign it. If i were fool enough to posit that B.J is a liar i wouldn’t want my name attatched either.
#1 B.J took this fight on three weeks notice, why would B.J need a ruse to cover up a lack of training?
#2 B.J is noticeably leaning to one side at the begining of the third.
I’ve seperated a rib before and for the next year, every time i laughed hard i had to favor that side.
#3 IMO B.J’s a better fighter than Matt and Matt’s a better built fighter than B.J.
I got caught up in how poorly thought out the article was i forgot about the typo’s.
After this no name writer states…
“by the time my column was written, edited and posted”
He/she continues with the following…
“I’ve heard about this alleged sparring session since right before Tito fought Forrest Griffin (Pictures) and from what I’ve know, it was supposed to be a secret.”
So maybe it was edited, but poorly. I would suggest switching the “heard” with “know” and add an “n”.
Finally, doctors have now confirmed Penn’s injury. This will put him on the shelf, at least for the rest of the year. Get well soon B.J. and try not to watch any comedies for a while. LOL… (ouch)
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